Incentivise Electric Cars

The City of Edinburgh Council should offer Edinburgh residents another £3,000 towards an electric car on top of the existing £3,000 UK government grant. This would mean those wishing to purchase an electric car would recieve of to £6,000 off the cost of one new.

Why the contribution is important

We need to make our streets emission free without punishing those that rely on cars.

by finlay1 on August 25, 2020 at 05:47PM

Current Rating

Average rating: 5.0
Based on: 2 votes


  • Posted by Voiceofreason August 27, 2020 at 19:19

    Brilliant, that would mean that a leccy Vauxhall Corsa shopping trolley would only cost 24 grand (as opposed to around 16 grand for the cheapest petrol/diesel one that hasn't required thousands of tons of landscape to be dug up using diesel power just to create its battery). Who pays for the appalling carbon overdraft that's created before it even drives away (never mind the hundreds of thousands of tons of emissions generated by the trams that have produced an unknown (probably so embarassingly small that it can't be revealed) amount of modal shift to date)?
  • Posted by finlay1 August 29, 2020 at 19:56

    @thevoiceofreason, let me explain things to you. An electric Vauxhall Corsa starts from £27,665. A similarly specked petrol Corsa with an automatic transmission costs £20,800. However, there are a few things you've got to consider.

    1) Electric car owners do not have to fork out on fuel each month or pay Vehicle Excise Duty (road tax).

    2) Electric cars do not depreciate as much as their petrol or diesel equivalents. This means that an electric Corsa is competitive on finance. With a £4,000 deposit a Vauxhall Corsa electric can be had for £322.93 a month based on a 48 month PCP. A similarly specked petrol automatic Corsa based on a 48 month PCP would cost £208.33 per month. Now £114.66 per month may seem like going electric comes at a premium, but when you factor in savings from fuel and road tax, the two cars are pretty close on costs. But now imagine the City of Edinburgh Council offered buyers another £3000 on top of the existing £3000 grant to buy an electric car, which is what I'm advocating. Think just how competitively priced an electric Corsa would be then.

    The Vauxhall Corsa electric is bad example of just how competitively priced electric cars are. Take the BMW 3 series saloon and the Tesla Model 3 Saloon. The Tesla Model 3 in rear wheel drive with a 254 mile range and a 0-62mph time of 5.3 seconds costs £40,490. The BMW 3 series 330i petrol saloon with a 0-60mph time of 5.8 seconds costs £38,710. Within a year the Tesla Model 3 will have cost you less than the BMW 3 Series saloon.

    The environmental impact of electric cars is a controversial topic. The way I see it as is would you rather have 1 horrible disease at the start of your life but the rest of your life be happy and healthy, or would you rather have lots of mild diseases throughout your life and never in good health. With electric cars, there's the often dreadful environmental impact at the beginning, but then for the rest of the vehicle's lifetime there's little environmental impact whatsoever. With petrol or diesel cars, during production environmental impact may be less than that of an electric car, but throughout it's life it produces nasty emissions everywhere it goes. I like electric cars because they are emission-free at point of use, making the air we breathe in cleaner. I have no interest in saving the world from the 'climate emergency', only in making our streets cleaner.

    BTW, I'm completely opposed to the trams and I've previously written to Lesley MacInnes expressing my dismay at the City of Edinburgh Council's decision to extend the tramline to Newhaven. I believe money should be spent on electric car infrastructure and electric car incentives instead.
  • Posted by Voiceofreason August 30, 2020 at 23:48

    Apart from the awfulness of the interior (makes a Vauxhall Corsa seem like a premium brand....), There are only 2 small problems with the Tesla. Firstly, like any vehicle, if you actually try to use the performance, then you're not going to get anything like the manufacturer's posted figures on range - best example being where Top Gear ran a virtue signalling Prius versus a BMW M3 under the proviso that rather than faking along on a rolling road, both vehicles had to try to lap the test track as if they were driving on A roads. The M3 was waaaay more fuel efficient.

    Following on from this, secondly, if you whang along on a motorway run, you'll find that the Tesla will rapidly run out of puff that cannot be topped up in the sort of time it takes to fill up the tank of a petrol/diesel vehicle (even if you stop to allow a Ginsters pasty to cool to the level where it is edible).

    That means that if you actually want to use it, you can forget long runs like Edinburgh to Birmingham and back in a day (admittedly much better by air) as you'll need to factor in long recharges ( if you can find a vanilla charging point, never mind a super rate Tesla rapid charger).

    Oh, that was the third point. Unless you want to live in a suburban villa complete with drive, garage and expensively installed rapid charging point, you'll just have to sling a 13amp cable out of the window and across the pavement, on the basis that it would take a spend equivalent to the GDP of the entire EU for several years just to equip Scotland with charging points (never mind the hideousness of that additional street clutter every 10 feet along Edinburgh's kerbsides would generate) - cash that nobody has, never mind wants to give away.

    Leccy shopping trolleys are a dead duck.
  • Posted by finlay1 September 01, 2020 at 00:08

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You may not like the interior’s of Tesla’s, other’s do.

    The video you mention with the Toyota Prius and BMW M3 is from over 12 years ago! Hybrid tech is a lot more advanced now than it was then. Think how much more advanced iPhones are now than they were in 2008!

    You mention that if you frequently use the performance Tesla’s have you’ll get nowhere near the manufacturers claimed range; that is a total lie.

    As for electric car range, when was the last time you drove more than 254 miles in a day? Also, if you’re driving from Edinburgh to Birmingham normally it’s about a 300 mile drive. As standard Tesla Model 3 RWD has a range of 254 miles. On your way to Birmingham from Edinburgh you can stop after 120 miles at Penrith and you can top up your charge to 80% in under 20 minutes and then continue on with your journey.

    On your penultimate point you say electric cars are only suited those who have a driveway. What total utter rubbish! I cycle past 3 electric cars everyday that are kept on the street and not in a driveway. When it takes just 20 minutes to go from 20-80% charge in a Tesla Model 3 using a 150KW supercharger (there’s some at Edinburgh Airport amongst other places), a driveway is not necessary whatsoever to own an electric car.

    Finally, in response to your last point, Tesla is the most valuable car company in the world and electric car sales are rising year-on-year in Britain with 37,850 electric cars sold in the U.K. in 2019 and so far in 2020, despite the Covid19 pandemic, in the first 7 months of this year more electric cars have sold than in all of last year. BTW, the sale of brand new petrol and diesel cars will be banned from 2035. Electric cars are the future, deal with it!
  • Posted by Voiceofreason September 01, 2020 at 19:58

    There are 2 Tesla fast chargers at the airport - whoopee!

     Are you seriously suggesting that folk would be happy hacking through Edinburgh's artificially generated congestion just to charge up?

    If so then your whole argument fails - you cannot rely on a vehicle that is only usable if you can actually find one of the very very few fast chargers available for it - at a point in time when nobody else is using it. No infrastructure = no practicality, a reality that the government will wake up to shortly.

    "Wall Street is worried that Tesla's going broke yet again" - https://www.businessinsider[…]n-2019-2019-3?r=US&IR=T

    If you think that it's the world's most valuable car company, then I shall eschew taking investment advice from you!

  • Posted by finlay1 September 01, 2020 at 21:25

    There are Tesla super chargers at Edinburgh Airport. By the end of this year Newbridge should have Tesla super chargers as well. Across Edinburgh however there are over 30 electric car charging stations situated across the Capital.

    You mention people having to drive to a charging point, don't you drive to a petrol station to fill up your car with petrol or diesel?

    The article you've provided a link to is from one and a half years ago. Here's a more recent article from Forbes published in July this year confirming exactly what I've been saying.[…]/

  • Posted by Voiceofreason September 02, 2020 at 22:01

    Did you actually read the whole article - never mind the warnings panel where it explains how several banks believe the company to be overvalued, this is the telling bit: "While Tesla now has a higher market cap than Toyota, it still lags the Japanese automaker in several key metrics. Toyota still produces a far greater volume of vehicles than Tesla, for example: In the first quarter of 2020, Tesla said it produced about 103,000 vehicles, while Toyota produced 2.4 million during that same period. Toyota also has a greater enterprise value ($290 billion), which factors in a company’s debt, than Tesla does ($252 billion), according to FactSet data."

    Folk fail to grasp that Tesla is supposed to be a car company that needs to generate revenue by producing and selling a tangible product. Amateur investors think that it's like a tech start-up that can go through endless rounds of hopeful debt gathering by selling increasingly diluted shares. A tech company can generate revenue by using a wide range of routes to market, rolling out product at the click of a mouse - it doesn't even need to put disks in a box any more. Tesla has to move tin to its purchasers, something that it has signally failed to manage so far.

    If it actually did manage to sell cars in millons, unlike Toyota, whose purchasers can head to where the nearest garage has 6 or 8 pumps and is no more than half a mile away, Tesla customers would have to pussy-foot around looking for one on the very, very few chargers where they could recharge in 20 minutes (if they hit the bonus ball) or hang around for a few hours.

    The more cars they sell, the worse the problem will get.
  • Posted by finlay1 September 03, 2020 at 22:14

    Tesla is the most valuable car company in the world - that's a fact. But Tesla are not the only car company that manufacture electric vehicles. Nissan, BMW, Audi, Honda, MG, Mercedes-Benz, Jaguar, Mini, Smart, Skoda, Seat, Volkswagen, Volvo, Polestar, Mazda, Fiat, Vauxhall, Peugeot, DS, Ford, Hyundai, Kia, Lexus, Porsche and Renault all currently sell electric cars. Electric cars are the future, like it or loathe it.

    Just by looking out the window, it's fairly obvious that Toyota sell far more cars worldwide than Tesla. But as you may be aware, Toyota is the world-leading manufacturer of hybrid cars. The Corolla and RAV-4 were the 1st and 2nd best selling cars in the world respectively in 2019, and both models in the UK are only available with hybrid powertrains.

    Charging infrastructure is something which the Conservative Government are investing hundreds of millions of pounds into and there are over 30,000 electric car charging points in the UK at over 11,000 locations. And anyway, most electric car owners never use public charging points as they plug their car into their home wall box in the evening and have it fully charged by the morning. A recent poll with over 17,000 participants found that 47% would consider going electric when purchasing their next car. A sign times have moved on from the two-horse race between petrol and diesel.

  • Posted by finlay1 September 03, 2020 at 22:16

    Also, just out of interest, what car do you drive?
  • Posted by Voiceofreason September 04, 2020 at 10:53

    "most electric car owners never use public charging points as they plug their car into their home wall box in the evening and have it fully charged by the morning."

    Ah, right that works in the cosy world of suburbia, where every dwelling has a driveway and 2 car garage. I can't imagine the chaos (never mind the cost - the whole of Scotland north of Perth will have to be planted with socialistical money trees) involved in digging up Edinburgh to provide acharging point every 100 metres, never mind within reach of every parking space, plus the mayhem available to feral youth !

    Who's going to pay for it all - it'll take the GDP of the whole world just to add sufficient infrastructure to a single country like the UK. It's a fantasy.

    In the meanwhile, if you have an interest in reducing emissions at the point of use (thank heavens we can inflict lithium mining on populations elsewhere!), then why not petition for more efficient buses. The current crop of super buses are cruising around empty, exhibiting less road use efficiency than a sole occupant Maybach limousine. The "Hoppa" buses of the 80's should be resurrected - nimble and large enough for the 4-10 people who wanted to use one. Post Covid where folk are reluctant to return to public transport, they will be fine at peak times as well.
  • Posted by Mmunro49 January 13, 2021 at 12:26

    Future Perfect

    One day, when we have all stopped haggling over how much, when, what and why....

    We will have a fraction of autonomous, electric cars on the road. These cars will have lifespans of 200 years on the clock as so few parts can go wrong, and be powered by graphene batteries which as well as being tiny, their power will last forever.

    Your app will order you a car to your door and drive you as you work, play and talk at a measured pace through streets designed with wide pavements and minimum road space. WiFi enabled, your music, heating and comfort will be taken care off. There are NEVER any accidents as computers manage traffic endlessly better than squabbling humans ever could.

    The cars themselves will charge themselves with solar car parks and they will technically run 24 hours a day, every day, naturally reducing the amount of cars required. Robots/ and or remote sensors will fix any issues as the car drives ( robots are already being sent to wind farms on drones to fix their parts - see podcast 39 ways to save the planet bbc Sounds)

    Perhaps, most effectively, human hardheaded values and ideas will be a thing of the past, as practical, eco community driven issues are given top priority:)

    Welcome to the age of Artificial Intelligence:)
  • Posted by Voiceofreason January 13, 2021 at 16:18

    "Welcome to the age of Artificial Intelligence:)" - Narnia, more like!

    Even if graphene products become widespread and reduce charging times by 50%, a leccy shopping trolley will still take far, far longer to charge than filling up with liquid fuel, therefore vast numbers of charging points will need to be available for everyone other than commuters but where is the power going to come from and how is it going to be distributed (hint - you can't download amps through the interweb).
  • Posted by Mmunro49 January 15, 2021 at 08:38

    Watch Engie Vehicle to Grid on Fully Charged and you will get a clearer idea about micro grids and how they work. Just because the technology isn’t in Edinburgh doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

    Electric cars are not just loaded with electricity. Their batteries can be used to power the grid. Any electric vehicle has this capacity and eventually this will be a free charging service as the grid uses the car’s battery capability in exchange for charging:)

    Why not look into electric vehicles in a bit more detail before claiming a negative understanding and portraying it as fact. From now on I will only converse with a genuine Eco related issue as this is the objective of this website and I believe anything else to be a waste of time and resources.
  • Posted by Voiceofreason January 15, 2021 at 18:04

    This comment has been removed by a moderator.

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